Burger Fest has got me thinking about superheroes, which got me thinking about villains, and how much my kids learn from an interesting and well-developed “bad guy.” I will never forget when we first watched “Frozen”. My oldest was three and loved the ice, the sisters, the songs. He’d recently become a big brother, so the reality of hurting a sibling rang true in his little brain.
Sometime after Elsa loses control of her powers and runs away, he turns to me all concerned and asks, “Is Elsa the bad guy?” I knew he felt a mixture of emotions: concern for her well being, concern for her kingdom, and her sister, but most of all, fear that he cared so much about “the bad guy.” I loved that he caught on to her complexity, and we talked about how she is seen as the bad guy, and certainly, her powers are making her do bad things, but she doesn’t yet know how to control them. Mostly because her parents told her just to hide them, which of course is a horrible idea, but that’s a whole other article.
Up until this point villains had been pretty straightforward for him: the evil stepmother in “Cinderella,” Cruella DeVille and her penchant for puppy coats, the mean guy Gaston. They’re all marked as “the bad guys” from the start, and we aren’t meant to empathize with them. So I found it very exciting to discuss the different ways someone can be labeled “bad” and turned into a villain, even when they have no control.
“Conversations about complex villains are a great way to help kids flex their empathy muscles in a way that’s accessible to them and their understanding of the world,” says Ben “Books” Schwartz, a video game writer for Microfun Inc. “Obviously not every conversation is right for every kid, nor at every level of development–a five-year-old probably isn’t ready to talk about Magneto’s role as a Holocaust survivor, for instance…I think the most important thing is to try to help children understand the idea that many villains (especially well-written ones) do what they do for a reason. They have motivations and likely see themselves as the hero of their own story. Even if you disagree with a villain and want to stop them, you can still understand that they want something–and may even raise a legitimate point!”
This would naturally bring me to Killmonger in “Black Panther.” I love how we learn that his actions stem directly from a place of pain, childhood trauma, and familial betrayal. I know this will bring up many questions when my children do watch it. My four and six-year-old haven’t seen a lot of Marvel movies yet, but some of the same motivations arose when we watched Thor. His brother Loki is never really seen as reliable, but once he learns his origins, Loki turns to the Nordic God dark side, as it were, and part of the fun of this character is that he is never really on any side except his own.
Actor, Director, and host of the podcast Cringe Benefits Abby Wilde directed me to Loki’s storylines in the comics and Young Avengers for a more thorough arc, and one that could appeal to younger kids. “Loki goes in and out of arcs like this. There’s a great one by Kieron Gillen in which Loki, reincarnated as the child version of himself, wants to be a good guy — but no one in Asgard will trust him because he’s Loki.”
In so many stories made for kids, when mine ask why the bad guy wants to make bad choices, it comes down to power or money. Then we go deeper as they inevitably ask why do they want power? Well, some people feel very powerless in their own life or had a bad experience when they were young, and they think power will make them happy. Why do they want money? (Deep breath, Mom): We live in a global society that values money and makes people think they are worthless if they don’t spend money, or if they don’t have money to spend, or if they are poor. It’s our job as citizens of the world to treat everyone with respect no matter how much money they have or how other people treat them, and maybe we can stop the cycle so people don’t worry they have to be the bad guy to be happy.
Whew. That’s a lot for a cops and robbers cartoon, but it also feels great as a parent to parse out these greater evils of the world so later, our kids won’t feel gobsmacked by how they were told the world exists versus how we would like the world to be.
Another villain who I never questioned as a child, but thankfully my own kids did, is the Wicked Witch of the West. On a recent re-watch, I was about to wonder out loud why she was being punished and labeled “wicked” when she is in the throes of mourning her sister when my kid asked that exact question. This brought us into a discussion on preconceived notions of people, and even if you do a bad thing because you are in pain, it is still a bad choice. But why does Glinda, the supposedly “good witch” give Dorothy the Wicked Witch of the East’s slippers? Out of spite, it seems, directly placing a teenager in harm’s way. They haven’t yet read the book “Wicked” or seen the problematic musical based on it, but in both, Elphaba (a name he gave The Wicked Witch of the West) is essentially a freedom fighter after learning how the humans of Oz are discriminating against those animals who can also speak, ultimately trying to subjugate them. So heck yeah, now even “The Wizard of Oz” is a more interesting and complex story to watch with my kids.
I used to redirect my kids when they wanted to be the bad guy, but Schwartz also says that pretend play with children can only build their empathy skills. “[Playing the villain is] helping them understand that people who hurt or upset them are fellow human beings and need to be treated with empathy rather than reciprocal cruelty. It’s also laying the groundwork for the eventual realization that they too will likely wind up hurting people sooner or later and that everyone takes a turn as the villain in someone else’s story.”
I could go on and on here. But I’ll just reference some more villains who didn’t make it into this story but are well worth the complex conversations:
- Maleficent turns from a stunning dragon sorceress mad at being snubbed for a party invitation into the defender of The Moors and trauma victim recovering from her wings being mauled off by a human she loved.
- The entire musical series “The Descendants” is about the struggle between teenage kids of villains not to end up like their parents, but sometimes their “good guy” counterparts also do bad things to piss them off and bring out the villainous side. See also: “Once Upon a Time,” the TV series.
- Writer and podcast host Dominic Mah brings up an excellent twist: “The Skrulls in “Captain Marvel” might be the MCU’s best try at “what IS a villain anyway?”
- Many more scholarly folk than I already took on the Thanos question, and I don’t even have the bandwidth right now to tackle him in the context of empathy.
- Nebula! One of my favorites from the MCU who I wish I could cosplay properly.
- Writer and voracious reader Bree Todish also recalled “Wanda & Peter in “Age of Ultron” who go from “villains” to “heroes” over the course of the movie.”
- “Poison Ivy is a radical eco-terrorist who cares about plants to the detriment of human life,” Wilde contributed.
- For Harley Quinn and The Joker, well, I’ll just refer you over here to Dr. Drea Letamendi’s amazing insight.
The resurgence of Maleficent also makes for some excellent cosplay
One of the most difficult examples was when we saw “Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse,” and spoiler alerts abound in this next paragraph, so you have been warned. It’s one thing when Peter Parker from our multiverse dies at the beginning, for we have the promise of more heroes to come. Then we learn that Miles Morales’ beloved uncle is the henchman for the main villain, and loses his life after Miles reveals his identity to him. And although I’d adore knowing Doc Ock’s backstory, it is Kingpin who is the main threat in the movie. When his backstory and motivation was told – his wife and son saw him trying to kill Spider-Man and were so disgusted and confused that they drove off and were killed by a truck – my son didn’t say anything in the movie theater. I waited for him to bring it up and he did, just a day later.
“Mommy, that was really sad what happened to Kingpin’s family. They died after they saw him make bad choices.”
“Yes, that really was sad.” I was about to launch into more probing analysis on his actions when:
“But Mommy, he still shouldn’t have made all those bad choices. That wasn’t right. He was going to hurt a lot of people because he was hurt.”
The kids may just be alright.
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